2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

abyss
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2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby abyss » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:14 pm

Hi,

i am really worried about my situation.

I was reported by a fellow driver on the road when i was reversing my car with hazard lights on and he called the cops and reported me that he could have had an accident. the fellow driver asked me to pull over and park the car to the side and i waited for the cops to arrive-the cops took me to the police station for breath test and came up with 0.19%.

my first DUI offense was in 2011 with a 0.167-16 months suspension,$1000 fine and 6 months interlock,Z condition at a court hearing.

I have now received the s51 for the immediate suspension again while at the police station giving my statement and i am awaiting the charges and summon sheet.

I am very much scared about my circumstances and wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what i could be expecting at a court hearing? i really hope i do not see the inside of the jail as i am about to get married in April and start a new life and i know i have made a wrong judgement in taking the wheel after few drinks.

thanks

Hardy
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Hardy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:54 pm

I am very much scared about my circumstances and wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what i could be expecting at a court hearing?

At court you will either get acquitted or you will get convicted. You should be asking your lawyer this question, not the public. See http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/legal.advice.html
The more cooperative you are with the authorities the worse it gets, so you are probably better off seeing a lawyer sooner rather than later - especially if the s.51 suspension is an inconvenience.

oscar
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby oscar » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:23 pm

sean - legally yes, you have given good info

just one question, does it ever concern you that people you represent drive with that amount of alcohol in their system?

and would you try as hard as you tell us you do, if a relative of yours had been injured/killed by a drunk motorist?

abyss
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby abyss » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:25 pm

Thanks Hardy!

I plan to seek a lawyer and will be contacting your office soon for an appointment. I am confused cos i will be traveling overseas from 27th March till 21st April due to my wedding and i was wondering if i should wait till i come back or after receiving the charge sheet and summons notice or see you before i leave?

Thanks

allde
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby allde » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:29 am

Just doing his Job Oscar, which is to give his clients the best defense possible, he doesn't release them back on the road or remove their licenses, that's up to the judge or the jury.

Like a Warrant Officer told me years ago, guilty or innocent, don't say anything until you have representation.

oscar
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby oscar » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:56 am

yeh - i know what he does and understand the ethos behind it....no issue with that - it's the system we have - not perfect, but better than a lot of others

that wasn't my question

it was a little more subtle than that

please re-read it

Hardy
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Hardy » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:06 pm

does it ever concern you that people you represent drive with that amount of alcohol in their system?

We can't be sure about what amount of alcohol was in his blood when he drove the vehicle, unless you expect me to simply accept the police allegations without investigating further??
I don't give them alcohol and then tell them to drive home. Just because the police make an allegation of alcohol in the breath or blood of a driver does not mean it is correct. Parliament and the courts determine which of my clients have committed offences. I don't get paid enough to be the judge of that!

You could ask any criminal lawyer if they are concerned about their client's alleged offending.
You could ask any family lawyer if they are concerned about their client's inability to maintain a happy marriage.
You could ask any bankruptcy lawyer if they are concerned about their client's unfortunate financial situation.
And you could ask the police if they are ever concerned that the crazed killer they just injured in a shootout and are now airlifting to hospital for treatment is a murderer who does not deserve medical treatment, let alone a lawyer...

So what's your point? In pretty much every court case there is a person who is in the shit and has problems to sort out, so many of them will see a lawyer.
Many times clients are in the shit because an over-enthusisastic police member has a novel interpretation of the facts or the law… If the police were always right there would be no need for lawyers or courts.

oscar
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby oscar » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:12 pm

i have no point sean, just a question (changed a little so you don't have to refer to the OP)

does it ever concern you that people you represent drive with large amounts of alcohol in their system?

and i guess a clarifier....

would you still be able to defend a drink driver if someone you cared about had been killed by a drink driver?

i doubt you will answer these questions.....as it would require you to ****censored by me****

Hardy
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Hardy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:43 am

Oscar, I'm very concerned whenever anybody commits any driving offence. I think it is outrageous. I'm disgusted at the lack of care shown by drivers who think they are above the law. They create unnecessary risks for all road users.
Just yesterday a police member was caught drink driving! http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/offdu ... 33tis.html Still on the job - not a problem it seems.
As for the question whether I would be concerned if any member of my family was affected by an offending driver, I can say that when I or any members of my family have made a complaint about offending drivers never have the police laid any charges. Being concerned achieved nothing at all.

Anyway, the OP has a better than 50% chance of winning this based on what he has stated. If that were to occur, would you be concerned about the police stuffing up the prosecution of a drink driver with that much alcohol in his system?

oscar
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby oscar » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:04 pm

i am concerned that police are required to jump through so many hoops that magistrates / judges have put in their way because lawyers have made what should be a very simply process so impossibly difficult

just look at the size of the relevant legislation

you know exactly what i am saying

what the law tries to say is.....if you are driving, you are required to give a sample of your breath and that sample must only have a certain amount of alcohol in it....what it actually says and what hurdles are required to be cleared, is now quite frankly ridiculous...and all because of people like you

thanks sean, not sure how you are serving the betterment of our society...oh that's right, you're not, you only serve each client, without regard for the ramifications

i sincerely hope that karma comes and bites you big style before your time is up

Hardy
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Hardy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:01 pm

what it actually says and what hurdles are required to be cleared, is now quite frankly ridiculous...and all because of people like you


Well, thanks for the compliment! It's true that the police and the OPP have lobbied parliament for numerous amendments to the legislation as a result of drink driving cases I have won.
I can think of the Blanksby v. Barnes amendment.
The Halepovic v. Sangston amendment.
The Goodey v. Clarke amendment.
The Dolheguy v. Becker amendment.
All supreme court cases which I won and the police then went crying to parliament to try to make sure they never lost again. And there are a few more in the pipeline…. The police say "why should we have to do things the way parliament has required us to? We prefer to cut corners, so please make it legal for us to win after cutting corners".

I note no amendments to the legislation arose because of lobbying by defence lawyers.

Gravy
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Gravy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:23 pm

oscar wrote:what it actually says and what hurdles are required to be cleared, is now quite frankly ridiculous...and all because of people like you
No, the legislation is that way because of people like you, who do not appear to believe in the presumption of innocence. It is there to protect the innocent from enforcement zealots.

I don't suppose you've ever heard of Blackstone's Formulation, let alone subscribe to the principle? What Sean and his colleagues do is protect this very, very important cornerstone of a modern and free society.

I firmly believe that drink driving is extremely dangerous and that it should be stamped out of society as a practise. What I do not believe in is that a driver who provides a roadside reading of 0.06%BAC should be taken behind the booze bus and shot, which is (metaphorically) what you appear to believe. I hear that extra-judicial punishment worked well in the former USSR...

What you do is absolutely necessary for a safe and free society, but don't for a second think that defence lawyers are somehow below you in providing that society. According to Blackstone's Formulation, one may mount a philosophical argument that they're more important than police, but I wont go that far.

I'm curious as to what you would do if you were ever up on charges for something you didn't do. Your clear disdain for defence lawyers surely means that you would not engage one to defend you - or does that disdain only extend to the lawyers representing the guilty*?

*as determined by you and you alone.

oscar wrote:i sincerely hope that karma comes and bites you big style before your time is up
You're the one who will have to watch out for karma if any person that you have charged is punished in any way if they were in fact innocent.

oscar
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby oscar » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:39 pm

Gravy wrote:... if any person that you have charged is punished in any way if they were in fact innocent.


hasn't been one yet, and if i have my way, there never will be

busdriver
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby busdriver » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:31 am

Hardy wrote:All supreme court cases which I won and the police then went crying to parliament to try to make sure they never lost again. And there are a few more in the pipeline…. The police say "why should we have to do things the way parliament has required us to? We prefer to cut corners, so please make it legal for us to win after cutting corners".


And cutting corners will eventually give the police and even badder reputiation with public then they already have, it bad enough now with Governments treating motorists like cash cows or wallets on wheels.

The police need to be kept honest.

Ponala
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Ponala » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:56 pm

Don't forget that Hardy doesn't win 'em all. I never lost one against him yet!

He gives it a run, like he should and as he is paid to do and that is what his clients want. Innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our judicial system. If a matter is lost on a technicality so be it! It either gets amended or the right procedures are followed next time. Sometimes we coppers need to step bakc and think about what the law is and how it should be administered. A number of matters are lost because coppers thought they could do something, when they couldn't.

I as a former prosecutor have respect for most lawyers out there. Most of them are fair and realistic, i have seen some try to get there clients to plead guilty (even Hardy) when they know it is a lost cause to push on, but they do as there client instructs and when they lose say 'i told you so' to their client.

Gravy
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Gravy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:54 pm

Well said, Ponala.

Hardy
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Re: 2nd DUI Offence! very concerned.

Postby Hardy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:39 pm

Yesterday I did a speeding case where I had told my client to plead guilty at a point where he was going to save his licence - on the basis that I thought it was not worth the time and expense to keep fighting the lesser speeding charge. The police eventually offered to drop all charges on the basis that my client pays his own legal expenses. I recommended this resolution quite strongly to the client as it appeared to achieve all of his goals, but he refused to accept it. He wanted all or some of his costs paid. So the case went on in the unusual circumstances where my client was fighting solely for a costs order. In his opinion, it was not a question of money but a question of vindication. The case finally resolved with all charges dropped and a proportion of his costs paid. To my surprise the client was very happy with the outcome. For him it was not a win unless the police suffered some hurt in defeat.

Compare that with Monday's case where my client was very happy to "win" by getting one month licence suspension instead of the 6 months that was hanging over his head. For him getting one month suspension was winning - and I agree with him. For many of my clients being found guilty is still a win. But the police think they "win" if they can avoid all charges being dismissed. But that is not the test for me or my clients. It is very likely a client has walked out of court firmly believing I have "won" something for them even though they have been fined or had a licence suspended. Many people posting to this board claim they have won after they have been found guilty and been sentenced under s.76. You may recall that even Mr Palmer claimed victories after being found guilty of offences on 4.9.08 at Moorabbin, and again he claimed victory on 22.1.13 after losing a parking fine case. Defendants who achieve the goal they set for themselves in their court case have certainly won something.


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